bicker and complain all day?
why not try to show some love around here?
just wondering.... with love,
Isn't it obvious how he likes to play the little "hit and run" game?
He reminds me of an immature little boy who throws a stink bomb in a room and runs like blazes so he doesn't have to face up to it.
Take the time to grow up bb by reading all the great encouragement here that has actual substance to it not just give us the "smile, Jesus loves you" bit.
Wherever did you get the idea that those words actually help anyone?
does anyone know where i can access copies of these political cards with wording in english?
Hi hawk:
I've also used:
http://www.translate.ru/
Danish scientist of the 17th century eh? Sounds interesting!
this was posted by jang at another forum, she had not seen it before either.. has this been questioned, talked about, etc?
i've not heard anything on it...... but then that's sometimes the case with me..
awake aug 22 1999 page 31 states: .
Well I'm certainly glad Maximus asked those rhetorical questions: "Don't I have to keep blood in a circuit? And if I keep it in a circuit, how can I fractionate it? How can I fractionate it if I don't store it?
Wait a minute, how was the cow's blood kept in circuit to get the hemoglobin for Hemopure?
Trying to wrap your cerebrum around this policy is mind-numbing".
I was beginning to think I was totally missing the point as to: Its OK to take fractions... has to mean storing blood. Its OK to donate blood for fractions....means storing blood. Yet the WTS says No to your own storing blood...it must be kept in circuit. Whew! I'm glad to know it sounds confusing to others too.
I never could understand why, if the Bible says "to abstain....from blood", was it ever made OK to take fractions, and why was treatment allowed for hemophiliacs but not for other life-threatening diseases?
If they are slipping in these little changes over time, to try to save face at the inevitable repercussions from JWs who have suffered a loss of a child and other loved ones, eventually its got to catch up with them. Surely the JWs will catch on, won't they?
this was posted by jang at another forum, she had not seen it before either.. has this been questioned, talked about, etc?
i've not heard anything on it...... but then that's sometimes the case with me..
awake aug 22 1999 page 31 states: .
OK disregard my last question. I went braindead for a minute.
I realize now its for any users and that JWs can store it for themselves because they are now allowed to take fractions. duh - sorry
this was posted by jang at another forum, she had not seen it before either.. has this been questioned, talked about, etc?
i've not heard anything on it...... but then that's sometimes the case with me..
awake aug 22 1999 page 31 states: .
Hello again Maximus:
Regarding your statement:
Today you can DONATE blood if it is used to provide acceptable fractions
Does the "DONATE" refer to JWs being allowed to donate their own blood to store for themselves for their own fractional use, or does your statement mean it can be for use by others too?
this was posted by jang at another forum, she had not seen it before either.. has this been questioned, talked about, etc?
i've not heard anything on it...... but then that's sometimes the case with me..
awake aug 22 1999 page 31 states: .
Hi again hawkaw:
(I was preparing this answer right after you posted this morning, but got called away before I could finish it. So I'll just be adding my .02 to what's already been said.)
Oh yes, I caught that phrase.
Today you can DONATE blood if it is used to provide acceptable fractions! Yes, you read me correctly. They just don't tell you about it!And its worth repeating again, and again, and again. How many active JWs know this I wonder.
And also:
Mark my words: They KNOW there is no absolute ban on blood. The policy has been changing under your nose and will continue to change....they are doing it glacial speed so as not "to harm the spirituality of the brothers with further disillusionment" like the "generation" teaching.
And yet some of those who have not skimmed over the "fraction allowment", still defend the change as "its a matter of conscience whether you take it or not, and still hold onto the scripture as 'law'. It's not an 'absolute'", yet they cannot explain why, if the bible is God's word, AND the WTS is directed by God's spirit AND the bible says "abstain...from blood", why on earth would God be allowing humans to take fractions AND to DONATE blood AND to accept the product 'hemopure' (sp?) from cow's blood for crying out loud?? Was not the animals' blood to be poured out on the ground "to signify the sanctity of life represented by the blood...etc."
They can't explain it because nothing about it makes sense.
Like 'waiting' said...don't we feel like the fools for allowing ourselves to be so asleep and complaisant..."yup, yup, whatever you say master."
We all have so much gratitude for the caring way you folks have been informing us all about what you have uncovered about this blood issue. This was one subject I would never have even thought about as being wrong after I left the org.
this was posted by jang at another forum, she had not seen it before either.. has this been questioned, talked about, etc?
i've not heard anything on it...... but then that's sometimes the case with me..
awake aug 22 1999 page 31 states: .
Good Morning waiting:
I agree that there are so many interesting posts, its getting more difficult all the time to keep up and to organize all that I'm saving.
Thanks for "resurrecting" your post from last year on the 1999 Awake statement. I must have missed reading that point last year when the mags were still being brought to me regularly. I don't have it now but a friend ordered the WTS's most recent CD ROM which goes up to 1999 or 2000 so I'll be able to print it out from there.
That reference to "blood transfusion is nothing more than an organ transplant" really is a curious statement for the WTS to put in its mags. A slip-up or a slip-in? Interesting....and I'd like to find that letter you refered to written by one of the men who the WTS misrepresented in quoting. I'm going to look if R.Watters still has it posted on his site.
Hello Maximus:
Here are the URLs to the posts you mentioned in your reply last night.
"Blood, The Watchtower and Deceit" posted by Maximus
Watchtower 10/15/00 Questions from Readers misquoting "Professor Frank Gorman,
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=6288&site=3
and "Tertullian & June 15/00 WT on Blood" thread posted by hawkaw - dealing with Tertullian and the writings of Eusebius on Biblis
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=7271&site=3#89926
I've saved those threads for the wealth of info I've been gathering on this gross misuse of power the WTS has wielded over its trusting and non-questioning sheep.
To tell its followers that God directs them to tell us his word means this and that in the bible is bad enough when they twist something to their liking, but to deliberately misrepresent someone else's words to make it appear to back up their statements is beyond decency. To blatantly continue to uphold something costing human lives is beyond forgiveness. Should we forgive them if they do make the big "new light" change? I don't know how to and I've never even been personally affected by their restrictions on blood transfusions. How much more difficult must it be for those directly affected by the loss of a loved one?
I'm following these topics closely that you, hawkaw, and Marvin Shilmer are bringing to our attention and even though it is difficult to keep up and also to research the suggested reading material hawkaw has so kindly provided when I had questions, I'm still plodding along.
Many thanks to you all!
ive been reading a lot on the issue of child molestion and the watchtower society.
ive read some things about the borg settling cases out-of-court but i havent heard many details.. does anyone know if the watchtower has agreed to any terms for settling a case that involve non-monetary terms?
for example, today i read in the l.a. daily journal about the catholic church settling a case that involved these terms:.
Thank you Maximus:
Sure, they are going to let elders hang out to dry. But they themselves will not be able to hide.
I can't tell you how good it makes me feel to be reassured that the GB are going to have to deal with their accountability. And I'm afraid I can't be too sympathetic with the elders who did what they were told. Conscience and reasoning power has to be a huge factor when dealing with the lives of those in your charge so passing the buck just won't cut it.
Having been raised to hold the churches of "Babylon the Great" in total distain, I must say I'm impressed with the fact that many of them have treatment facilities and arrangements for the victims and the victimizers.
To be reminded of the WTS treatment policies of more, more, more, and to read their crowings of how wonderful their methods, ideals and policies are, makes me quite ill to say the least. I'm not a victim of a molester but I am a victim of the WTS system and when I see such outright, boldfaced hypocrisy in the huge gap of truth between what they say and what they do, I can hardly contain myself.
I am so happy to hear you say again that "the Berry case will open the floodgates of civil suits."
And when you say "Rest assured the Society will pull out all the stops to win that case", my intense hope is that doing so will cause them to fall flat on their face and their feeble underhandedness will be exposed to the world.
Thank you for making me feel better.
ive been reading a lot on the issue of child molestion and the watchtower society.
ive read some things about the borg settling cases out-of-court but i havent heard many details.. does anyone know if the watchtower has agreed to any terms for settling a case that involve non-monetary terms?
for example, today i read in the l.a. daily journal about the catholic church settling a case that involved these terms:.
Hello Ray:
Thanks for this very interesting post informing us of this news story. Its very gratifying to see all this being made public for all to know about. The WTS has encouraged us for a long time to look down our noses at the few scandals that have come out of the Catholic Church. Now its gratifying to see them have to publicly own up to it and now to see the WTS having to follow suit.
I would like to see in the WTS, #4 implemented so that if a molester isn't put in jail, at least he will no longer be in an authoritative position again. In fact, all of the points are very good, but I wonder what the WTS would do with the info gathered on a 1-800 number and/or a website. Would they not still try to keep this info "secret" and try to protect their image?
I will be interesting to see if that is implemented in the Catholic Church and if it works.
Hello Maximus:
As usual, you have given us "real meat to chew on". You said:
The suit was not against the Catholic Church but against the Bishop and Archbishop, much like the Circuit Overseer and District Overseer. They were charged with failing to act on the information they received.
Forgive me if this question has already been answered somewhere.
- I wonder you expect this will be the pattern that will be followed for the WTS....suing the elders or COs and DOs instead of the actual org itself. They failed "to act on the information they received" but as we know in our org, that was the internal direction of the WTS....to handle these cases themselves and not go to authorities, even though in print for the public, the WTS says otherwise, much like when the Catholic Church said:
"Sexual abuse is a serious sin. It devastates its victims physically, emotionally and spiritually. It also erodes the confidence the faithful place in their pastoral leaders. Such activity simply will not be tolerated in our church."
- I understand the Berry case IS against the WTS itself. Do you many think others, having won their criminal case against their molester, will file suit against the WTS also?
i am erica garza rodriguez.
i wanted to write and thank all of you for your interest and support during this long pursuit of justice.. to those wonderful friends who were able to travel to ritzville for the trial, my heart overflows with humble gratitude.. bill bowen (and wife sheila, behind the scene).
b (you know who you are), pat, chris, richard and wife, gsark, baharama and sister, maximus, were you there?
Hi Erica:
You have our deepest respect, as you can see from all the responses so far, and I know there are many more out there that agree silently too.
Not only were you the victim of the molester, someone considered a friend of your family, but you were once again victimized by your so-called friends in the WTS. That only added to our disgust in how an adult(s) can manipulate, control, overpower and destroy the innocence of a child and totally ignore the damage done to the happiness that child deserves.
We are so grateful you had the courage to stand up to, not only your molester, but to the people who should have been there for you, not him.
I am so glad you posted your response here, as our concern was not only that justice was served against the molester, but that you were helped by all the support you had, both first-hand and from all of us well-wishers behind the scenes, and that you could feel some relief finally at seeing him being held accountable for his crime and put away.
I wish I could hug you in person, but this {{{{HUG}}}} will have to do.
